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August 13, 2007

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kj

to comment on the immigration situation in the bahamas i think the immigration dept needs to have a serious overhaul its to corrupt and to much meddling by politicians make it difficult for those in charge to do their jobs sadly most everything in the bahamas has politics involved and thats why nothing ever gets done if these politicians just keep out and let people do their jobs something can get acomplished also the illegals who enter the bahamas do we really know who is here criminals murders rapist etc we have to protect our country we can be sympathtic to others but at the same time we must be careful who we let inside our country there are a lot of illegal activity going on in the hatian community and very seldom you here any one beign charged before the courts is it that hatians can do illegal things and nothing said or done thats why there is so much outrage against that community i watch the news recently in the USA where an illegal immigrant executed 3 college students he had a long criminal past and was walking the streets i think we need to be very careful in bahamas is a small country and 350000 people can easily be outnumbered by a population of millions if the bahams really serious about immigration we need to find away to stop these illegals from entering our country period.

Monique Mason

Shameful. Simply shameful.
"We need to find a way to stop these illegals from entering our country period."
The sheer ignorance of anyone to label an entire race or community. I thought we were a Christian nation. I have long been appalled at the way Hatians are treated in my country. Interesting to see this article.
I learned of the immigration issue in my country just this past Sunday. It brought me to tears that to know that my people allow our country to function in ignorance and perceived hierarchy.

Immigration reform NOW! Worse, born here (Bahamas), not born there (Haiti, Jamaica, etc.), but you're not Bahamian? Why not? One question kj...and maybe you have the answer. Why aren't they Bahamians? It's just sad. Does it not make sense that a ghetto mentality and criminal instincts are environmental results. Read a book, please. Educate yourself. You do not own a country. The land was hear before you were born. Who made you the owner that you could say, "Our country." I am ashamed of the level of ignorance and inhumanity. That in itself is criminal. And, you pass judgment? You know why you don't have a problem with it? My guess is because it isn't happening to you or someone you love. What are these human beings being punished for? You say, "We can easily be outnumbered." Why even think of being outnumbered? Did you do something that would cause an mutinous responses from illegal immigrants. I truly am disappointed in the situation and the response. I apologize that my anger is evident. Please put yourself in the place of the people you pass judgment on and be FAIR. Please do not practice INJUSTICE. We should be embarrassed at our ignorance. And you know what, we are a very intelligent people!!!! Moving forward and insisting these laws be changed is what we should be doing. It is an outrage.

kj

hi monique im not a inhumane person i travel a lot to diffrent countries around the world so in cases im a immigrant but i do it whithin the laws of that land i try my best to stay out of trouble where ever i go im not saying i own any place but the bahamas is where bahamians call home if you go to hati you have to abide by their laws jamaica the same thing try to go to these countries where illegals come from to the bahamas and you will see how strict they are with their immigration policies you have to pay to be there the bahamas is to lax with their immigration laws have you observed the usa and the policies against the mexicans you cannot have a particular come inside your country and out number the people who are ethnic to that country that is how wars are started i read monique it was going on from the days of the old testament how about the muslims versus the christians how about GOD saying his chosen people are the israelites i can go on and on the thing is we can be nice but the people who were beign nice to have no regard for law and order they bring the same mentality what is destroying their country to the bahamas and what you think will happen to the bahamas most bahamians if they travel around the world you dnt hear them causing problems im not picking on hatians you have chinese in almost every country some are doing illegal activities but we tend to be quiet why? i tell you why the chinese come in and they seem to have an impact on the economy and most people thats where their mind is money so this immigration situation has a lot to do with economics and if a certain culture is a burden to ones country this is where the outrage comes in think if hatians contributed in a significant way to the economy of the bahamas it wont be so much outrage i mean we can say we have handy man etc these are things bahamians can do but im talking about them contributing in a real nation building way and they dnt its a financial burden to us those hatians were paying to much money to have them here and getting no returns on our investment spells disaster when you come here illegally you already broke the law so why must i grant a person citizenship who from the begining already did a criminal act.

Monique Mason

Unfortunately I don't see the opportunity for them to contribute in their current situations -- children without a country, etc? I personally feel ashamed of our immigration policies.

You made references to the immigration policies of other countries. No disrespect to you, but I think a commission needs to study the successful immigration policies of other nations and bring back qualified qualitative and quantitative fact-based reporting...what we know, rather than what we think we know. And we Bahamians need to put our personal feelings aside and do more to operate in the know, rather than on assumptions. We owe it to ourselves and our future (the children) to take a much more responsible approach to this very important topic. Immigrants DO NOT appear to be given opportunities to integrate into the society, thereby not promoting desire in them to succeed. Give them liberty, I implore you (we Bahamians).

A more positive, proactive, and humane approach to dealing with the immigration situation is something we really should take very seriously. The current laws are limiting them in such a way that it appears to me to be counterproductive. It's probably promoting feelings of hopelessness.

I'm sorry that I did not do a good enough job of articulating my hope that our country will position itself as a fair and impartial nation of smart people. We are smart KJ. We can take care of this immigration issue and any other issue facing our nation with the right approach, research, a dedicated diverse group of individuals addressing the issue with EVERYONE'S best interest at heart, and the education of our people. Our current approach has not yielded positive results for anyone. It's a problem for both sides...Bahamians and immigrants alike. Let's try something different...something based on actual research that is fact-based, not assumption based. We owe it to ourselves and our immigrants (fellow man) to do the work to get the job done. Our approach is lax and stifling.
By the way, I appreciate hearing back from you. Sorry that my passion for fairness and hope that the Bahamas will grow might have come across as harsh.
By the way, if you stop and think about it, among our immigrants we have no idea that some of our greatest minds probably live amongst them just waiting for an opportunity to be cultivated. We are probably doing our country an injustice by not encouraging hope in our immigrants.
Thank you for your response. Open your heart and your mind to the possibilities. Dare to dream the impossible KJ. :-) One more thing KJ...What of the innocent children born there. Is them not being automatic citizens unfair? Since you study the immigration policies of the US, you know that they are automatic citizens of the US because they were BORN THERE.

drew Roberts

"Immigrants DO NOT appear to be given opportunities to integrate into the society, thereby not promoting desire in them to succeed."

I think our problem does not only exist there. It also exists in the rich and super rich enclaves we have and our developing in this country.

We should welcome foreigners but in ways that see them integrated into our society. In all walks of life.

Birth and citizenship...

Off the top of my head, this is how I think it should be...

You are born here and your mother was here legally at the time. You get citizenship right away. (Even if your mother came here legally and overstayed due to technicalities.)

You are born here and your mother was here illegally at the time. You don't get citizenship right away. Your mother and you should be sent home, and your father if he is here illegally.

All this with sane and properly functioning immigrant and guest worker programs.

Now, as to the current situation...

If children were born here, grew up here, went to school here, have basically lived here their whole lives. Give them citizenship, or at least permanent residence with the right to work. (I say citizenship.) I wonder if I should have reservations for those with serious crimes on their record.???

And everyone should be treated with human decency. Foreigners in our land should be treated well. Even the ones here illegally. If they are here illegally and we want to ship them home, fine, but treat them well in the process.

As to the US situation with automatic citizenship for those born there... I think their system needs fixing on that one. Either like I suggest above, or, if they are going to keep the automatic citizenship for those born there, than automatic green cards to be given at birth to the parents of those citizens so that those citizens can live in their own country with their own parents and grow up in their own country. It seems a bit wonked to me to deport the mother of a citizen who is still a minor.

all the best and I welcome further discussion should anyone wish.

drew

http://openphoto.net/gallery/index.html?user_id=178
Hey! Fish underwater!

Rhapsody

Quick note: there is nothing Christian about our nation. You might have been right had you said hypocritcal.

Secondly, I agree that something needs to be done about the illegal immigration issue. In 2001 I believe ti was, the Dept. of Statistics advised that roughly 1/3 of our population is Haitian. Bahamians will soon be outnumbered by illegal Haitian and now Jamaican foreign immigrants that are bringing the terror and violence from their own countries with them. The same terror and violence that many (note I am not inferring that it's everyone) pass on to their own children. Look at the murder rate, look at those convicted. See how few are at teh very least second generation locals.

I don't have a problem with immigration once it's done correctly, and I lament that legal immigrants and those persons who genuinely want to bring something of value to our country so often are, it almost seems, intentionally diverted from doing so.

And while I appreciate escape into better circumstances, I have a absolute and unforgiving view of those who

a) never attempt to become legal (many never do) or at the very least attempt to blend into or become Bahamian - if you're here it should be because you want to be one of us, and becoming Bahamian should be a requirement; and

b)those persons who bring their drugs guns and violence with them. If you bring it here why bother to escape? They now merely embody the dreary devestation they claim to have wanted to leave behind. In which case, send them back so they can war for survival somewhere that is accustomed to it.

Maedawn

Why do are calling the children of illegal immigrants, children without a country. Do they not have the right to claim citizenship of the birth country of their parents? If anyone is to be blamed for their dilemma, they must first blame their parents. This is a prime example of the "sin of the father". Every country( and I've lived in several) have laws to protect their citizens,this is just another one which should be respected. Why is this so difficult to uphold

SIR  LANCELOT

Due to the very lax immigration policies ,of the United States ,50%of the population of America will be hispanic in 10 years.i predict the same for the Bahamas ,50% of your population will be HAITIAN ,IN 10 years,check the birth rate of haitians ,and how many are in your school system !

Ta'Shar Cuccurullo

We can solve this illegal immigration problem in a blink of the eye – make it mandatory for persons living in The Bahamas to carry an identity card. Surely if you are granted status either by birth or by virtue of tenure, you ought to have one with you. Anyone not having an identity card is subject to deportation or detention until one can be produced on his/her behalf. The identity card must be on your person at all times.

larry smith

Aside from the 'big brother' issues, how would we round up, detain and deport 50,000 illegals?

Arielle Gibson A Proud Bahamian

if u born here that does not make u a Bahamian. If I was born in Portugal and both my parents are Bahamian, how can I call my self Portugese. I can not do that my roots are in the bahamas. and yal keep making it easy for these illegal imm. to come here in the bahamas they wil never stop! We are a small nation how in the World do you think we can take in the 8 million people haiti has? I am a chritian and I do sympathize with them but we just can not do financially. These illegal imm. tend to have a million children and then wanna turn around and put them in the gov. schools which the governemnt of the bahamas made for BAHAMIANS. That is not fair, my mother and father pays for me to go to private school and go to private doctors why should they have free things? And another thing yal takin up for these ppl and they are not taking up for u.. if u go on youtube the hatians are talkin bout us Bahamians so nasty and makin videos mockin us. Yal can not continue to be so silly. these ppl have no love for us, and i do want you to think it is just hatians, ANY illegal imm. needs to leave the bahamas, and even some legal ones cause we have enough imm. in the bahamas. We do not need to end up like america a huge melting pot! Just remember those imm. are not taking up for u like u are taking up for them!

Kayshala Symonette

Hunnny, darlin, dearest first of many of the immigrants who u r defending our NOT BAHAMIANS they do not share the same rights in The Bahamas as Bahamians do GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD first off many of these smae immigrants have bad flickin attiudes and i am beginning not to even feel sorry for them anymore. Jus because u born u r not a Bahamian IMMIGRANTS GET THAT THRU YOUR HEADS if your mother and your father ear not Bahamians u r whatever your mother is thats if they rnot married. Yes i dont care if they r sufferin because they r here illegally many of them and they couldn give a damn about Bahamians. They are probably in the majority in this country and they take up all of the spaces in our schools forcin many Bahamian children to find other means of gettin education in public schools which was infact made for Bahamians not for haitians to over corwd us. they cause violence in our schools because so many of them are here and are bein great competition to our Own people AND THEY SHOULD HAVE RIGHTS no honey who cares because when i become minister if immigration MAY THE LORD BE WITH EVERY LAST ONE cuz i will make it my business to deport the majority of these haitians particularly

Stirling silver

First of all, my two cents:

children borned in the bahamas to parent/parents who are legal should be given automatic citizenship/passport.

Children borned in the bahamas to illegal parent/parents should be granted automatic citizenship upon their 18th birthday, and if they were raised else where, then apply for citizenship when they turn 18.

Immigrants married to Bahamians after 5 years should be given permanent residency, not citizenship.

For those of us who seem to support the present immigration laws, where kids borned here cannot utilize their birthrights even after age 18, only one thing to say: For Bahamaians who choose to move abroad or have children abroad, or get married abroad the same laws should follow us to countries that we as bahamians migate to. Only to show us how it feels to be an immigrant living in another country with the same restricted laws that the bahamas has towards immigrants. Don't say that we don't go to other countries because alot of bahamians are migrating to USA, and Canada, who are not migrating just going there to have children so as to reap the benefits of these countries. Not all immigrants are bad and maybe if we treated them more fairly, we wouldn't have so many differences and hatred in the country.

freethinka009

Here is a good solution: The Bahamas government needs to purchase a couple of 250-foot barges. I have located one for a reasonable price of $680,000.

The barges could be fitted with 2 upper livable quarters for 2000 passengers, the deck will be used for the transport of containers, heavy equipment, vehicles and other cargo.

Taxpayers are paying over $600 to send Haitians back for free only to have them return in a couple of days. It costs the government 40 luxury flights on Bahamasair totaling $1,000,000 to deport 2000 illegal Hatians. This practice needs to stop.

Transport by barge would achieve the same result as 40 luxury flights on Bahamasair with only one voyage, saving taxpayers tens of millions of dollars over time.

The 2008-2009 budget allocates $1,000.000 for the Haitian effort. This money should be used to purchase the first barge and build the two upper decks to house passengers... NO MORE FREE FLIGHTS TO HAITI.

Each illegal migrant would have to pay a $35 fee (including departure tax) for the trip, which would add up to $80,000 per voyage that could be used to buy food water and fuel.
There would a fee list for vehicles, cargo, heavy equipment etc to maintain the barge and crew.

This concept could be the ultimate way to help Haiti while clearing the Bahamas of the illegals. It could relieve us of our illegal Haitian problem in 12 months, shipping 2000 a time with all their belongings.

Don't tell me that this is inhumane... it's the perfect way for Haitians to pump up their own economy. Imagine the things that Haitian migrants have in the Bahamas that could be carried back to their homeland.

Hatians cannot make Haiti better if all of them keep running to the Bahamas illegally. The barge concept would be the ideal solution for solving our illegal migrant problem while helping Haiti build itself with items they acquired during their illegal stay in the Bahamas. Think of it. There is no better way.

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